Lance Hamilton ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
: In article <[log in to unmask]>, "D.A. van Delft"
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
[...]
: >
: >Ah, one of the many goodies of POSIX. Try the command 'ls' (or, if you
: >insist, LS.HPBIN.SYS).
: >From the posix shell prompt: 'ls -m', 'ls -u', 'ls -c' for modified,
: >accessed, created.
: >
: >Hope this helps!
: >Danny

: It's nice to see that while another respondent suggested buying
: a third party utility package to accomplish the task at hand,
: thanks to the SCOPE of features in UNIX, no extra $CASH is
: required to solve the problem.  It would be interesting to know
: the price of the suggested pacakge.

Um-m, if you're referring to Posix, the price is $0.00.

[...]

: You MPE diehards just don't know what you're missing by sticking
: with a STABLE but old, frumpy, feature deficient O/S like MPE!

: Don't worry about flames!  I'm wearing my asbestos jockey
: shorts.

No flames from me (others' temperatures may vary). :-)  And there's
nothing wrong, IMHO, with being an OS bigot of any kind, as long as
you tolerate others who may be differently bigoted -- and you get
your facts (and prices) right.  Come to think of it, "toleration"
and "bigot" don't mix well together, so maybe I need a new term for
"bigot".

: Perhaps one day I'll write up the story of how my employer,
: against my recommendation, dropped our SCO UNIX/Informix
: accounting system in favor of an MPE/ix & Image based
: "solution."  The worker bees in accounting are up in arms
: about all the things they've had to give up with the
: new system.  In fairness to MPE/ix, many of the lost
: features are the result of the new but OLD, FRUMPY (COBOL based),
: accounting package.  However, other giveaways, such as
: the inability of dumb terminals to run multiple sessions
: (ala "Multiview Mascot" or "Facet Term" - both running on
:  many UNIX platforms and the lack of a modern support
:  and admin. tools like "Double Vision"  and "Informix
:  ISQL" that lets me knock out FAST, EASY reports and
:  quick and dirty SCREEN FORMS for accessing/correcting/
:  updating raw data is just pathetic!)

OK, I'm going to do what I urged you to avoid -- ask a question
the answer to which may embarrass me.  You asked how much the
Posix "third party utility package" cost for MPE.  I ask you:
How much do "Multiview Mascot", "Facet Term", "Double Vision",
and "Informix ISQL" add to the cost of your touted Unix system?
Are they free, as Posix is on MPE?

[...]

: And the
: editor on the 3000 is nightmare.  Shades of "EDLIN".

Come now, as a DP professional, you know better than to start an
editor war. :-)  Each editor has its place and purpose.  I prefer
HPEDIT for general purpose 3K editing, but it *is* an extra-cost
product.  But for many years (before I became proficient with vi),
the only editor I knew of which could insert a backspace (^H) into
text was good old EDIT/3000.  And you *can* run vi in the Posix
shell on MPE.

: I will say that I do like the HP method of showing the "F-Keys" as
: labeled buttons on the screen a nice feature.  I also like the ability
: to scroll back up a screen that has already been scrolled out of view
: by new data.  But, overall, the new environment is pretty sad!

I'm glad you found *something* nice to say about HP -- there may
be hope for you yet. :-)

-Larry "Unix-tolerant MPE bigot" Byler-