Michael
When will you read what I wrote:
> >> >As to the nuclear threat that Iraq poses, I submit that there is
> evidence
> >> >that they would use them due to the past use of chemicals weapons in
an
> >> >intended offensive manner.
I only suggest that they would have a greater tendency to use nuclear
devices base on their past use of weapons.
You on the other hand, falsely indicate that I said that Iraq would use
nuclear devices.
> you say, that Iraq would use nuclear weapons if they had any and therefore
> must be attacked.
Again, your changing the point that was presented. I was only following your
point that
> >> as for chemical warfare, the result of agent orange to a chemical
weapon
> >> was the same even if it was not supposed to be.
> >> Maybe testing before use would help.
>
I only pointed out that the automobile was intended as transportation and
that it also killed thousand to which you replied:
>About automobiles, yes more testing of the drivers should be done.
> absolutly correct and yes, I am for safer cars where gas-tanks dont
explode
> on accident or the allignment falls apart or brakes dont work.
> Yes, please more and better tests.
But will 100% testing of machine and humans, stop accidents from occuring.
Will testing prevent the lack of maintenance of automobiles. Will testing
the unresponsible acts of people (ie, drunk driving, driving while
impaired).
Michael, when will you stop presenting the half truths of what others
present.
Joe
SpellChecker not working
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Baier" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "HP3000 List" <[log in to unmask]>; "Joe Andress"
<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: FW: [HP3000-L] OT : Understanding both sides
> you say, that Iraq would use nuclear weapons if they had any and therefore
> must be attacked.
> Great. Please continue to attack all dictators and don't forget North
> Korea. They even said, that they would use them.
>
> Only the US is trying to buy votes and threaten other countries with
> different opinion.
> Sounds much like a dictatorship.
> If you do not do as I want I will punish you. You have to agree with me or
> otherwise.
>
> About automobiles, yes more testing of the drivers should be done.
> absolutly correct and yes, I am for safer cars where gas-tanks dont
explode
> on accident or the allignment falls apart or brakes dont work.
> Yes, please more and better tests.
>
> Any further questions?
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:46:14 -0600, joe andress
<[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >It is fully your opinion that I was being rude.
> >
> >As for a remark about the french, you are WRONG. I did not make a remark
> >about the french. I only concurred about the humor in a posting much in
the
> >same way that others find humor in the post by Bruce Collins. Does it
> bother
> >me? Nope, I take it for what it is, a little bit of humor.
> >
> >Your understanding with what a dictator is, differs from my definition.
> >Since other countries diagreee with the US, your logic would indicate
that
> >they are dictators.
> >
> >You should read a little more carefully.
> >
> >What I posted
> >
> >> >As to the nuclear threat that Iraq poses, I submit that there is
> evidence
> >> >that they would use them due to the past use of chemicals weapons in
an
> >> >intended offensive manner. How do you know that Iraq does not have
> >nuclear
> >> >programs that are oriented to weapons creation?
> >>
> >Your response
> >
> >> Furthermore, no proof has been presented by anybody about a nuclear
> threat
> >> from iraq. The only threat currently is from North korea and
> >india-pakistan.
> >>
> >
> >Note that I never stated that Iraq HAS nuclear weapons. Only that they
have
> >a stronger tendency to use them if they do aquire them based upon their
> past
> >use of chemicals weapons.
> >
> >As of the use of Agent Orange, you again missed the point. The original
> >position was that Agent Orange was used (/intended? i dont know this part
> as
> >a fact from the author) as a WMD. Something that I have noted as not be
> >correct. The concept of intent and outcomes are two different aspect.
> >
> >The intend of automobiles is to provide transportation. The outcames is
> that
> >they kill thousands.
> >
> >Based on your line of logic, they should do more testing before allowing
> the
> >use of automobiles.
> >
> >
> >Joe
> >SpellChecker still not working
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Michael Baier" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: "HP3000 List" <[log in to unmask]>; "Joe Andress"
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:21 PM
> >Subject: Re: FW: [HP3000-L] OT : Understanding both sides
> >
> >
> >> I must agree with Richard.
> >> calling the leaders of all other countries that don't agree with
> >> yours "loudmouth" is very disrespectful. The remarks about the french
> >> military was better either.
> >>
> >> I don't have all the facts but if friends can't disagree on important
> >> issues, then one of them acts like a dictator.
> >> Furthermore, no proof has been presented by anybody about a nuclear
> threat
> >> from iraq. The only threat currently is from North korea and
> >india-pakistan.
> >>
> >> as for chemical warfare, the result of agent orange to a chemical
weapon
> >> was the same even if it was not supposed to be.
> >> Maybe testing before use would help.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:08:38 -0600, joe andress
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Richard
> >> >
> >> >I fail to see how I have been rude or disrepectful of anyone's
opinion.
> >You
> >> >appear to be the one who makes the judgement that I am disrespectful
> >> because
> >> >I disagree with your opinion. MMMMM, guess my opinion counts for
nothing
> >> >them. But then, you do say that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
> >> Seems
> >> >like you have a problem with making your mind up.
> >> >
> >> >As for the list monitor quirp, I just a regular list member who is
> >express
> >> >his opinion. You can ignore me is you wish. That is totally up to you.
> >> >However, I am entitled, as anyother member of the list, to express my
> >> >opinion. It would appear that you dont agree. Your opinion, I accept
it
> >> >without comment.
> >> >
> >> >The US developed and use the atomic weapon over 45 years ago. The
weapon
> >> was
> >> >use 2 times as we are aware. The weapon and its related weapons have
not
> >> >been used again. There is no evidence that they have been used.
> >> >
> >> >Iraq, on ther other hand, has chemical weapons. They have proven that
> >they
> >> >have used them on several occurances.
> >> >
> >> >As to the nuclear threat that Iraq poses, I submit that there is
> evidence
> >> >that they would use them due to the past use of chemicals weapons in
an
> >> >intended offensive manner. How do you know that Iraq does not have
> >nuclear
> >> >programs that are oriented to weapons creation?
> >> >
> >> >As for the last part of your post, President Bush has been to the UN a
> >> >number of times. I dont recall anything about the US being totally
bound
> >by
> >> >the UN. I also dont recall anywhere President Bush subscribed to the
> >> >principles of a dictatorship. Only that Iraq honor the commitment that
> >Iraq
> >> >made. I guess you read something or heard something that I didnt.
> >> >
> >> >But then again, it might be your expressed opinion, something I can't
> >have
> >> >or express.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Joe
> >> >Spellchecker not working
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Richard Barker" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 11:28 AM
> >> >Subject: [HP3000-L] FW: [HP3000-L] OT : Understanding both sides
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi
> >> >>
> >> >> Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and it most cases
> >> everyone
> >> >> on this list maintains a certain level of diplomacy and decorum.
> >> >> Unfortunately recently the new list monitor (or at least he seems to
> >be)
> >> >> Joe, seems to just be disrespecting everyone who even slightly
> >disagrees
> >> >> with him.
> >> >>
> >> >> I suppose I should just ignore him.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joe, there are other countries in the world and other people who
don't
> >> >> necessarily share Bush's and your opinion on how the world should be
> >run.
> >> >> Why should we have to suffer the problems that this unilateral, non
UN
> >> >> supported, action creates. Iraq probably does not have nuclear
> weapons
> >> >and
> >> >> even if they did, what evidence do you have that they would use
them.
> >> The
> >> >> only country that has ever used them, is your own, so who is more
> >likely
> >> >to
> >> >> use them again.
> >> >>
> >> >> The idea of the UN is effectively a form world wide democracy, by
just
> >> >using
> >> >> it when you want, then ignoring it when it suits you means that
maybe
> >> >> America doesn't really believe in the principle of a democracy only
a
> >> >> dictatorship.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: joe andress [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> >> Sent: 12 March 2003 18:19
> >> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT : Understanding both sides
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Iraq can simply prevent any deaths of Iraqi people and destruction
of
> >> >their
> >> >> infrasturction by ONE person following the compact that HE allowed
to
> >be
> >> >> signed.
> >> >>
> >> >> HE is the one person who can stop any and all actions. NO one else
has
> >> >> started anything. ONLY HE can stop it.
> >> >>
> >> >> And for the ignorent ones, its not G W Bush.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Richard Ali" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:17 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT : Understanding both sides
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ken Hirsch points out:
> >> >> >Negotiators were never able to agree on a definition of
"aggression",
> >> >> so the ICC does not currently have any jurisdiction over an alleged
> >> >> crime of starting a war.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The deaths we inflict upon the Iraqis and damage to their
> >infrastructure
> >> >> would be the crimes, not the "starting" of the aggression.
> >> >>
> >> >> I had a quick look at your link and found: "The Court has
> jurisdiction
> >> in
> >> >> accordance with this Statute with respect to the following crimes:
> >> >> (a) The crime of genocide;
> >> >> (b) Crimes against humanity;
> >> >> (c) War crimes;
> >> >> (d) The crime of aggression.".
> >> >>
> >> >> Not had a chance to go through it in detail but doesn't point (d)
> cover
> >> >what
> >> >> I'm talking about? I admit that I could be wrong since I've only had
a
> >> >quick
> >> >> look.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards
> >> >>
> >> >> Richard Ali
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Richard Ali
> >> >> Smith & Williamson Corporate Services Limited
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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