Donna started yesterday on 3000-L:
=========================================

....
during sig mpe, we talked about the possibility of sig image merging in.
imo, most of the people at the meeting were in favor of doing this.  ....

after the meeting, someone approached me about sig image and asked if it was
a good idea to include eloquence.  i thought it was quite an interesting
suggestion.

i strongly believe that image users still need a strong voice (via a
sig) to express their concerns/needs to hp.  i think the issue surrounding
large file datasets and the upcoming sql standard are two obvious examples.
i believe too that eloquence user will benefit from having a unified voice.

so, what say ye?

- should sig image merge with sig mpe?
- should sig image include eloquence users and become sig image/eloquence?
- any other suggestions?
========================================

WRT Donna's ?, my votes:

YES, SIGImage/SQL should merge with SIGMPE.
YES, Eloquence should be included.

FWIW, 2 or 3 years ago at SIGImage/SQL meeting users DID
vote to include Eloquence.  That by itself does not mean
it still has to be, but for the record.

WRT outstanding issues:  Large file datasets (LFD) + SQL99:
Definitely significant issues, and should get attention.
BUT (and I perhaps did not make this as clear as I could
have in my pre-HPW postings that resulted in cancellation
of SIGImage/SQL meeting at HPW-2004):

In my discussions with the HP Database Lab prior to HPW-2004,
it was my clear understanding that there is no chance... read
that as NO CHANCE...  that HP will undertake any more work on
Image that would be considered an enhancement;  i.e.:  As long
as HP has Image, SQL99 is NOT going to be incorporated.  Would
be happy to have HP disagree, but not holding my breath.  IMO
only chance this will happen is if SIGMPE / OpenMPE can get HP
to release its death grip on MPE and subsystems, and somebody
else does it.

WRT LFD:  If somebody can demonstrate that there is an outright
bug, then HP has an obligation to fix it.  But AFAIK, it's not
that it breaks, it's just slow and clunky.  Remain open to
correction.


Then after other comments the Chairman of the Board stepped in:
=========================================

And I agree with the concept also.

In order to effect an orderly transition, the heads of the two SIGs in
question should contact Interex and find out what needs to happen in order
to merge.  It could be as simple as folding one SIG (sigimage) and then
expanding the mission of the other SIG (sigmpe).

Denys
===========================================

Donna and John Burke:

Given we have the support of the COB, as the active leaders
of SIGMPE, will you take the lead on this ??  I am in full
agreement with need to merge, and will support whatever you
all come up with.
==========================================

Then Lendy Sanford Cooke:
==========================================

Donna,
My vote is, no matter what, Eloquence should be added to
Image's Sig.    I also believe that Sig Image needs separate
representation for one more year.   If HP may see a SIG
merger as a sign that our issues don't have the backing from
the user community to keep the SIG running.    .....
==========================================

In another time and place in the life of MPE and Image,
Lendy's above on keeping SIGImage/SQL going for another
year would be the prudent thing to do.  However, in the
current situation I think keeping SIGImage/SQL separate
will not provide any added value.  Problem is not lack
of backing from the users:  It is lack of backing from
the VENDOR.


IMO core issue remains the same:

Either HP will release / license MPE and its subsystems
to one or more third parties soon (it is on the verge of
being if not aleady too late), or it will not.  If HP
does not, the only question is the slope of the glide
path on "fade to black".  In saying that I realize that
many users will continue to run MPE for years after HP
exit;  and that well-regarded companies like Allegro,
Beechglen, etc. will continue to support it for years.
But the cold, hard realities are what they are.

Believe it was long-time usual suspect Duane Percox who
shortly after Black Wednesday 11-14 prophetically said:
"MPE is dead.  Get over it."

Kind of depends on what the meaning of the word "is is",
I suppose, but with HP still refusing to say until last
half of 2005 whether or not they will even CONSIDER
licensing / releasing MPE, Duane's words are (sadly) IMO
the operative and accurate description.  Note there has
been no substantive news from OpenMPE BOD either;  clock
continues to run, and nothing has happened that we know of.


Now return myself to regularly scheduled day of real work.

Ken Sletten
Temporary / caretaker / outgoing SIGImage/SQL Chair,
and (as much as possible) ex-HP-customer.

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