Is there any precedence within HP for open sourcing something important?  My
impression from the limited samples that I'm aware of is that they simply
kill software and make sure no one else can do anything with it.  OpenMail
and Cooperative Services come to mind. Can someone else contradict this?

Charles Finley
Transformix Computer Corporation
760-439-3146
Fax 760-439-3146

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> Behalf Of Sletten Kenneth W KPWA
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 10:34 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: nasty rumor: What next, OPENMPE, etc.
>
>
> Wirt forwarded independent direct confirmation from within CSY
> to this list:
>
> > 10/31/2003 - End of sales
> > 12/31/2006 - End of support.
> >
> > In the meantime, there'll be full support, both software- and
> > hardware-wise.  .....
> >
> > There's a lot more information regarding the transitioning over the
> > next few years.....they'll announce a website Wednesday also.
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > .......... In some ways, this may be the best thing that could
> > happen to MPE.  While HP, beginning next Wednesday, will
> > undoubtedly promote all sorts of propositions to "migrate" you to
> > other HP-supported platforms, away from MPE, for most MPE users,
> > there really is no such thing as a practical migration process. It will
> > simply be a complete restart. The best thing that could happen for
> > all of us would be to migrate MPE somewhere else, in a completely
> > open fashion, so that you could buy your hardware from Dell or
> > IBM or whoever you cared to purchase it from, at commodity
> > prices, and have you run your business uninterrupted without
> > having to engage in an extremely expensive and disruptive
> > "migration" process.
>
>
> Assuming HP announcement comes off as expected and includes
> the above core info, then.....  well, then a few things:
>
> (1)   As I think Steve first correctly pointed out and as confirmed by
> above (for a reasonable interpretation of "full support"):  Ongoing
> support for existing hardware and current OS release is not a near-
> term or even moderate-term issue:  That will continue as before; for
> plenty long enough for 3rd party MPE support to ramp up if there is
> still a demand for that after HP exits at the end of CY 2006.
>
> (2)   What if anything will HP still deliver with respect to additional
> A-and-N class boxes;  i.e:  The A-and-N class "road map" presented
> at HPW-Chicago last August ??.  If on 14 Nov the hardware offering
> is instantly "frozen" where it is right now, that would be *real* bad
> (and unacceptable, IMO).  OTOH, if HP continues to deliver on much
> if not all of the latest A-and-N class road map, that should give users
> a "comfort zone" where they can be confident they will not bump up
> against a hardware-CPU "ceiling" anytime soon.  At the very least,
> HP needs to release full-speed A-class boxes before "end of sales";
> and hopefully some of the follow-on N-class boxes they talked about
> in Chicago.  If HP does not directly answer this as part of the initial
> announcement, then need to do so very soon afterward.
>
> (3)   On the Software side:  Similar to hardware:  "Freezing" status
> quo of GR MPE on PA-RISC is unacceptable:  Need to get 7.5 and
> hopefully beyond that out the door; plus as already mentioned fibre-
> channel support.  Hopefully both are close enough to being done they
> will not be in question.  As with hardware, should be part of initial
> announcement or addressed in near term.
>
>
> (4)   Big unknown;  and crux issue for long-term survival possibilities:
> As Wirt noted, for many if not most MPE users there ain't no such
> thing as a practical migration process;  essentially a restart (if more
> than one or two % of the MPE installed base ended up "migrating" to
> ALLBASE on HP-UX, I would be surprised (even if "free" upgrade) ).
> Given that, what are chances that under the OPENMPE banner the
> MPE IA-64 translator could be finished and released ??.  If it *can*
> be finished, then MPE might have a shot at Wirt's brighter-than-you-
> might-expect long-term future.  If not, then while as Steve and others
> pointed out nothing we have now will stop running after 14 Nov, MPE
> will be stuck on an architecture that has a clear end-point; and about
> the only question will be the angle of the glide slope of the graph of
> remaining users over time (although even then expect many sites will
> run MPE for quite a few more years;  don't under-estimate staying
> power of "legacy" systems)....
>
> Whether or not users for whom "migration" would be most painful
> might hang in there for a while or not seems to be pretty dependent
> on whether or not they think there is a realistic chance MPE might
> eventually run in translated mode on IA-64;  and whether or not
> support contracts would be available for same...  I remember Harry
> Sterling standing up in front of everybody at HPW-1999 and saying
> that HP *would* port MPE to IA-64 in some fashion;  and he didn't
> add any "ifs" or "buts".  And in 2001 HP said sales of A-and-N class
> boxes were "better than expected"...  O.K.:  So business conditions
> can change (while Client Systems had a record sales month ??.. but
> I won't go there tonight...).   But given previous clear commitments, I
> suggest that if HP wants to have any hope of getting more than zero
> on a scale of 10 in the next survey that asks "do you consider HP a
> trusted partner", they need to devote a significant effort to helping an
> OPENMPE effort carry the IA-64 translator to completion....  Also
> note that John (I think it was) was right on:  Access (in some fashion;
> TBD) to OPENMPE needs to start ASAP after 14 Nov;  "starting" in
> November 2003 is an obvious and complete NON-starter....
>
> While I realize it wouldn't be easy, I point out in passing that if there
> are even 2500 existing MPE sites out there to whom it might still be
> worth the cost of a M$ MSDN Universal Subscription to bring the
> MPE IA-64 Translator to fruition, that would be over $5 million a year.
> Assuming (big assumption, I know) the right people with the right
> expertise could be hired by a commercial OPENMPE support group
> to do it, my guess is that would be more than enough $$....
>
> I'm probably at the point where I'll wait and see what actually hits the
> street on 14 Nov...  After which expect we the 3000 user community
> will take a week or so to "absorb and digest" the announcement.....
> but while we're doing that, request y'all keep one thing in the back of
> your minds;  that we would have to act on pretty quick if we want it to
> happen:  Recent talk by SIG leaders appeared to lean toward holding
> SIG3000-2002 in conjunction with what I understand is (or at least
> was) expected to be a SIGSOFTVEND meeting in February.  If HP
> makes expected announcement, we have a new ballgame;  and usual
> SIG3000 agenda is OBE.  *BUT*: In that case might the entire MPE
> user community still want to have a "real meeting"; to actively discuss
> and brain-storm an attempt to make OPENMPE a reality ??  Certainly
> much can be discussed on this list, but to really launch OPENMPE
> I'm thinking a face-to-face meeting of the user base is in order.  Plus
> how many people show up would be one indication of how many sites
> are still chanting "MPE 4ever"...  All I can say is baring unavoidable
> conflict I would be there....  If OPENMPE is gonna fly, need to make
> the attempt sooner rather than later;  before both users and internals
> experts start to seriously "disperse";  i.e.:  before things progress
> from the SNAFU stage to full-blown FUBAR (let's hope it won't be
> FUBAR already on 15 November......).
>
> Anyway, *if* an OPENMPE kick-off "real meeting" was to happen, I
> suggest that within reason it needs to happen ASAP.  Feb 2002
> sounds too far down the road (and HPW 2002 is *way* too late;  this
> will be decided one way or the other long before HPW-LA).  I'll get
> ahead of things and throw out 18-21 January as probably the earliest
> time something could be put together without going into all-out panic
> mode;  and of course even that is dependent on finding suitable
> meeting space in the "greater Cupertino" area....
>
> Ken Sletten
>
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