I agree with Richard.  I was U.S. Air Force, and stationed in Belgium.  We
got the U.S. News, British Sky Channel, German news in English, and the
opinion of our Belgian neighbors.  Each news report had a different angle.
The U.S. Citizens are well liked, but they like us in spite of our
government.  After reading about our foreign diplomacy, based on oil, I can
see why.

Guy Avenell
USAF Master Sergeant Retired

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Barker" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: [HP3000-L] How To Stop Suicide Terrorists...


> Actually there was a great documentary a while back on BBC 1, shown here
in
> Belgium, where it examined the motivations behind 9/11 and highlight why
the
> hatred for the Western nations and specifically the US had come from.
>
> Unfortunately I can't remember the exact specifics of people and places,
but
> the general problem was that the US (and I'm sure other Western countries)
> took a very simplistic approach to foreign policy.  I'm sorry I can't
recall
> the details, but it all seemed to stem from the US forcing a very
unpopular
> leader to take over in Saudi or Jordan (I think) as the US felt they could
> manipulate him as he wished, but this angered deeply all the people in the
> region.
>
> In this documentary it then went on to show video tape of US soldiers in
> Afghanistan showing Al-Qaida how to fire certain weapons it supplied, to
> fight the nasty Russians.
>
> I should point out that, although it may seem so from my recent mails, I
> don't have a vendetta or dislike for the US, I'm sure my country, Britain,
> is just a guilty of making mistakes.  The difference, I feel, is that the
US
> tends to take the moral high ground too often and that the general
> population is very badly informed about the world and it's politics, so it
> has a very biased view point about it's own country's actions.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Hirsch [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 30 May 2002 17:20
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: [HP3000-L] How To Stop Suicide Terrorists...
>
>
> Richard Barker wrote:
>
> > Hmmmm
> >
> > Is this meant to be a joke.
> >
> > So basically it's ok to murder a number of completely innocent people to
> try
> > and prevent someone becoming a suicide bomber.  Interesting idea, maybe
we
> > should try this in America.  Anyone who commits Murder should have there
> > entire family executed.  Just imagine your Cousin who you haven't even
> met,
> > decided to get drunk and runs someone over, oh well, it's only fair that
> you
> > and your children should be executed as a result.
> >
> > How about examining why so many people feel so passionately against the
> > west, to resort to killing themselves to kill others.
> > Unfair and unjust actions of the west (specifically the US) only cause
to
> > motivate normal people to become terrorists.
> >
> > The American government is responsible for the training and supplying of
> > arms to Iraq and Afghanistan, because at the time Iraq was fighting Iran
> and
> > Afghanistan was fighting Russia.  Maybe the US should examine it's own
> > policies, before declaring a war on terrorism, a situation that it
> created.
>
> (1) The U.S. did NOT arm or train Iraq's military.
> (2) The U.S. did arm and train fighters against the Soviet invasion of
> Afghanistan, including Osama bin Laden, but I fail to see how that made
him
> hate us.  Nor did the U.S. government train him to hijack airplanes.
> (3) The reasons that bin Laden gives for attacking the U.S. are
>    (a) the U.S. supports Israel and
>    (b) the U.S. has non-Muslim "infidel" troops on Saudi Arabian
territory.
> (4) The reason so many people hate the U.S. is because we have an active
> rather than isolationist foreign policy.  You will always make somebody
mad
> when you intervene in the world.  People blame you for things you do and
> things you don't do.  Everything seems to be your fault when you're in
> charge. In the short term an isolationist foreign policy would reduce
enmity
> against the U.S., but it has been tried before with dire long-term
results.
> (5) For example, why are U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia?  Because Iraq
invaded
> Kuwait.  Should we have done nothing or just joined U.N. sanctions against
> Iraq (look at how successful those have been)?  By now Sadam Hussein would
> have had nuclear weapons and have effective control over the entire
Persian
> Gulf.  I'm skeptical that that would be a better situation than what we
have
> now.
>
>
> All you have said is "America did X; people hate America; therefore
anytime
> people attack America it's our own fault."  I find the chain of logic less
> than compelling.
>
> Ken Hirsch
>
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