At 04:15 PM 29/9/95 -0700, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>Gee Jim, you have Python (which is almost everything you could want in an
>object language), and Mark's g++ port (I must not have been too good
>at convincing everyone how awesome Python is, since there have only been
>two downloads so far (and one of those was from Finland)).
 
Well the other must have been from Australia seeing as I picked it up some
weeks ago.  While MOVER produced three files for me, python.Z doesn't
uncompress properly:
 
        shell/iX> uncompre python.Z
        uncompre: compressed file is corrupt
        shell/iX>
 
Is this a known problem? Or part of my trials with Netscape?
 
>Ok, I'm finnaly breaking down and replying to the latest doom of the
>3000 thread...
 
I hope I wasn't trying to cast doom -- merely exhorting HP to be more
committed, more passionate, more definitive in its HP3000 strategies, rather
than sitting on the fence (where of course you only end up with splinters in
your bum!).
 
[...]
>First of all, we need to understand how the Computer System Circle-of-Life
>works:
[...]
Your Circle though ignores the Marketing Circle-of-Life (geez, there's a lot
of running around in circles going on here).  This one goes:
 
1) New private upstart product breaks into large oligopoly offering
unprecendented technical advances or price/performance ratio breaking all
the previous rules.  The upstart fragments a large whole such as computing
into smaller pieces (like PCs, Networking, Languages).
 
2) The Upstart experiences incredible growth, developing a new bureaucracy
to handle the incredible demands on it.  The small fragment becomes an new
leading edge technology.
 
3) The Upstart is now a major player, with large expectations from
shareholders, and demands for fixes and revisions.  As a major player they
are also drafted into the honourable position of defining standards for the
rest of the industry.  The fragment becomes a market segment.
 
4) The Major (nee Upstart) must now bring out more and more products to
cover the challenge of other competitors who have followed its lead and to
meet its large corporate expenses.  Unfortunately the new products are
neither as innovative, nor successful, but sheer market size ensures good
revenues continues.  The Major now writes the rules.  The fragment is now an
industry.
 
5)  The Major becomes a Dinosaur, and should a new Upstart come along could
either be broken down completely and sold in pieces, or simply chew away in
its small corner of the swamp waiting the finally bullet, or it becomes
active in stamping out new little Upstarts before its too late.  The Major's
industry though is becoming marginalized by media focus on other technologies.
 
6) The Upstarts come.  The industry is fragmented once again.
 
I cite Borland, Ashton-Tate, Lotus, Digital Research, Intuit, Microsoft,
Burroughs, Bull, Honeywell, Prime, BBJ Today, Ingres, ASK, ad nauseum.
 
>Today the future for the 3000 does not look very bright.  The applications
>just aren't there to provide the growth that it needs.  There are only a
>couple "best-of-breed" applications left on the 3000 that could sell new
>applications.  Whatever happened to ASK anyway?  Seems like five years
>ago half of the customers I talked to were using MANMAN.  Now I haven't
>heard a peep out of a MANMAN customer in ages.
 
ASK had a history of HP3000.  Then they took over Ingres who had no history
with HP.  Naturally ASK directors chose the Ingres route for development (as
HP management hadn't done them many favours according to Sandra Kotzig(?)).
So now ASK is owned by Computer Associates - a vitalized dinosaur if ever I
saw one. "What's an HP3000?" they ask.
>
>Porting applications to the 3000 using Posix can help those who already
>have 3000s keep them, but who would buy a 3000 to run a Unix application?
>Sure it might be more reliable, maybe even faster, but when you have a
>problem and call the software developer for support are you going to get
>to talk to someone who understands the 3000?  To thrive, the 3000 needs
>3000 applications, not Unix applications.
 
The purpose of Posix I thought was to permit companys who don't know
anything about 3000s to operate like they did.  As I lamented, most
companies don't make independent analysis of particular hardware, but look
to the applications.  As long as there are dominant products like SAP's, or
Lotus Notes not running on HP3000s, the 3ks will be hurt.
 
>THE FUTURE
....
>
>The Circle of Life needs to be reestablished.  There need to be new 3000
>applications to sell 3000s.  HP needs to create an environment that will
>attract developers to the 3000.  Some random ideas for what HP might choose
>to do if they decided to do this (as if anyone cares what I think):
....
 
Excellant ideas all, especially the downsizing and cleaving MPE from the
hardware (if possible but what happens to MPE adjusted disc controllers?).
 
Regards.
----
Jim "seMPEr" Wowchuk           Internet:    [log in to unmask]
Vanguard Computer Services     Compu$erve:  100036,106
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