Indeed, my usage of 4th Generation Language in the Wikipedia TurboIMAGE article could be better said as "4th Generation Language products such ...".
The debate on 4th Generation language as a term already happened over 20 years ago. Even then, Proprietary Computer Language would have been more accurate but the term became general accepted by the computer industry.
Speedware, Powerhouse, and Protos all had components (Powerhouse Quick, Speedware Reactor) that had a proprietary language syntax that offered Assignment, I/O, and Conditional logic. As such, they meet the minimum requirements to be referenced as a computer language. TurboIMAGE has a syntax for specifying the database schema but does not have any component that meet the I/O, Assignment, Conditional logic so it does not meet the minimum requirements to be referred to as a computer language.
Unfortunately, the discussion may be moot. I have not yet found a citable reference for that particular statement. And Wikipedia does not allow original publication so I have to point back to something or remove it. I plan on removing any non-citable statements over the weekend.
So if anyone knows where I might locate the Interex Interact magazines online, I would appreciate it. And if you have any items that you feel should be included in the Wikipedia article such as crediting Fred White and John Bale as the original proponents, please let me know. I am adding a citable reference to them from an article Bob Green wrote that I located in the Robelle archives.
Have a nice weekend for those who are taking Friday off.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Lang
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 1:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Wikipedia TurboImage article
Art,
These are all tied to a particular company, hardware, database or product.
They are all so-named to give them appeal to an unsuspecting customer.
In the 'History' section of your first link it states "early 4GLs were included in the Informatics MARK-IV (1967) product and Sperry's MAPPER (1969 internal use, 1979 release)". So I'd conclude that MARK-VI is a product (as stated) and Sperry's MAPPER needs a Sperry Univac to run on.
The article further tries to include "Some advanced 3GLs like Python, Ruby, and Perl combine some 4GL abilities within a general-purpose 3GL environment. Also, libraries with 4GL-like features have been developed as add-ons for most popular 3GLs. This has blurred the distinction of 4GL and 3GL."
So the writer appears to admit that there are now things named "4GL-like features", which just adds to the confusion.
In the progress from (1) Machine Code to (2) Assembler Languages to (3) Compiler Languages, I can write binary code, I can write ASSEMBLER and BASIC, and I can also write FORTRAN, ALGOL, COBOL, PASCAL, PL/1, etc.
We all know that IMAGE is a database 'language' specific to HP, and I can write a COBOL program to interact with an IMAGE database. Other companies have their similar database products (e.g. Oracle, IBM).
None of the so-called languages in the articles you quote, are taught at university (at least none that I know of), so I'd still proffer that they are 'products' being offered by their specific companies, with a marketing 'spin' that they are the newest gizmo of so-called Fourth Generation Languages.
George Strait has some ocean-front property for sale in Arizona and I know you're just dying to get your feet wet...
Kindest Regards,
Tom.
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