If Mrs Bardot were speaking up against killing animals, that would most
likely be free speech. For what I read, she was speaking up against killing
animals specifically by Muslims at the occasion of Aid-el-Kebir (sp?), which
is, I think, the celebration that closes the holy month of Ramadan (any
Muslim on this list, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). This is a
blatant incitation to racial (or religious, Denys, or whatever) hatred. Or,
as someone else wrote, hate speech (a broader definition, not based on race,
which is more appropriate, I think), as defined by stirring hate between
communities.
Why didn't she speak up about killing turkeys for Thanksgiving ? Or
Christmas (we don't really celebrate Thanksgiving in France) ? Or
slaughtering a lamb for Easter ? She speaks up against a specifically Muslim
celebration, and says nothing about other religious groups' specific
celebrations. Can't you see ? Animals don't really seem to be her main
concern. Muslim religious practices seem to be. And that's the point.
I don't have a problem with free speech.
I really have a deep problem with hate speech.
Christian
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part
> de Shawn Gordon
> Envoyé : jeudi 19 juin 2008 22:24
> À : [log in to unmask]
> Objet : Re: [HP3000-L] RE : [HP3000-L] RE : [HP3000-L] RE : [HP3000-L]
> Carly in the news
>
>
> She's been to court a number of times over this
> topic, this is the only one I know anything about, this is what happened:
>
> ----
> MRAP filed a suit last year over a letter Bardot,
> 73, sent to then-Interior Minister Nicolas
> Sarkozy. In the letter to Sarkozy, now France’s
> president, Bardot said France is “tired of being
> led by the nose by this population that is
> destroying us, destroying our country by imposing
> its acts.” Bardot, an animal rights activist, was
> reportedly referring to the Muslim feast of Aid
> el-Kebir, celebrated by slaughtering sheep.
> ----
>
> This is a serious offense in France? She has her
> opinion and stated it. You ever see what PETA
> does and says in the US in the name of "animal
> rights"? This is positively tame. She's against
> the killing of animals, she doesn't care what race you are.
>
> Michelle Obama didn't get blasted at all on that
> rumor, she's been fairly blasted for the other
> nutty things she's said though. Clinton
> operatives started floating a rumor that she said
> "whitey" at some function and it was on tape, the
> tape never surfaced, no one ran with it, there
> was some discussion as to whether it was real,
> but everyone was suspicious because the source is
> widely known for being full of s**t.
>
> Look at Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all
> their anti-Semitic rants, they never got thrown
> in jail for it. Americans are just more tolerant
> of people with dissenting views than the French I guess.
>
> At 12:41 PM 6/19/2008, Christian Lheureux wrote:
> >I finally took a moment to enquire about what Mrs Brigitte Bardot has, or
> >has not, done. In fact, she got taken to court and tried for a quite
> serious
> >offense : incitation to racial hatred. Nothing to do with free speech per
> >se. Just a practical limitation to irresponsible speech.
> >
> >Bottom line : even if you're famous, you can't incite to racial hatred.
> Ask
> >Michelle Obama how she got blasted for some racial slur that she may or
> may
> >not have uttered.
> >
> >Even the United States of America has to strike a balance between the
> First
> >Amendment (IIRC, that's the one about free speech) and incitation to
> racial
> >hatred.
> >
> >Christian
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la
> part
> > > de Denys Beauchemin
> > > Envoyé : jeudi 19 juin 2008 01:19
> > > À : [log in to unmask]
> > > Objet : Re: [HP3000-L] RE : [HP3000-L] RE : [HP3000-L] Carly in the
> news
> > >
> > >
> > > Christian wrote in part:
> > >
> > > As I see it, President Sarkozy is already planning the after-Bush
> period.
> > > I
> > > think that's a wise move, if not especially shrewd, because everyone
> knows
> > > that Bush won't stay on after Jan. 20th. So better plan what comes
> next
> > > right now. Especially since Sarkozy will hold the rotating EU
> Presidency
> > > for
> > > 6 months starting July 1st, which happens to include Nov. 4th, US
> Election
> > > Day.
> > >
> > >
> > > To which I answer: It's not wise or shrewd; it's a no-brainer. The
> day
> > > of
> > > the election to his or her second term, everyone on the planet knows
> the
> > > date certain when (s)he will step down. So plans are immediately
> adjusted
> > > with that date in mind.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If France really repressed free speech, there's a lot of things I
> wrote,
> > > including a few on this list, that would have landed me in court, if
> not
> > > outright in jail. It never happened. And I can assure you I don't fear
> a
> > > knock on my door, like it happened at darker times in our history.
> > >
> > > Speaking of Brigitte Bardot (I guess that's the one you're referring
> to,
> > > most likely not my former boss at HP, nor my second-degree cousin, who
> > > both
> > > go by that same first name), I admit that, since I'm absolutely not
> > > interested in that person, I did not bother to gather specific
> > > information.
> > > So, in a nutshell, I don't know what happened to her, if anything. The
> > > only
> > > thing I'm aware of is that she recently got some limited media
> attention,
> > > but I just did not bother to ask why.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are right, I don't know of your second cousin and your erstwhile
> boss;
> > > I
> > > was indeed referring to Brigitte Bardot. I don't give a hoot about
> her,
> > > but
> > > I found it disturbing that she got censored and fined, several times,
> for
> > > what she said. I am further disturbed that you did not know or care
> about
> > > that. I would think that as someone who cares about freedom of
> speech,
> > > you
> > > would be horrified by that and would want to do something about it.
> This
> > > attack on the freedom of speech is happening all over Europe and in
> Canada
> > > quite a bit. The world is changing and in some ways, not for the
> better.
> > >
> > > I happen to strongly believe in the freedom of speech and pity the
> people
> > > who do not have that, and I find it depressing that people who do have
> it
> > > and perfectly happy with, or oblivious to the fact it is being eroded.
> > >
> > > Denys...
> > >
> > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> > > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
> >
> >* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> >* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Shawn Gordon
> President
> theKompany.com
> www.thekompany.com
> www.mindawn.com
> 949-713-3276
>
> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
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