I wouldn't be surprised if there are some old men around the
world who think that their time in the Third Reich was a time
of honour, no matter how abhorrent the reality was. Warrior
chic - na thanks

Bill


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One day in retrospect the years of struggle will strike you as the most
beautiful. -Sigmund Freud
Just a Minute! - Clement Freud





-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Berliner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 14 December 2001 10:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: 210 Years of Civil Rights


At 02:10 PM 12/13/01, Michael Baier wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:36:37 -0800, Newton, Ernie <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >They have the same "rights" as anyone else in the country, unless of
>course,
> >they
> >choose to live on their own sovereign countries.
> >
> >They lost, get over it...
>
>Said the murderer to the victim.
>
>A paper is nice but the real deal is if and how people live by it.
>The Magna Carta was for "nobles" and the Bill of right was for a certain
>class of white-men. Women had no right to vote then either. Blacks,
Indians,
>Jews and other were not included.
>The 10 Commitments were for "everybody" and how many live by that? (At
least
>for these that believe in that)
>
>At least try to work on all these statements in the future.
>
>Michael
>
>
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Michael Baier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:01 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: 210 Years of Civil Rights
> >
> >
> >It would have been nice if the people would have lived by that.
> >However, ask the native Americans about their rights and how they were
> >treated the last 210 years.
> >


In our local area (north coast of California) there are several Indian
reservations and I have become acquainted with some of the Native
Americans. They are a proud and noble people. They greatly resent being
thought of or treated as "victims" and doing so places one in risk of
grievous physical injury.

The following article may help you understand the Native American
perspective.

  From "Its a Warrior Thing. You Wouldn't Understand," by David A. Yeagley
  FrontPageMagazine.com | March 7, 2001 URL:
  http://www.frontpagemag.com/columnists/yeagley/2001/dy03-07-01p.htm

We Indians are supposed to hate the white man. Everyone tells
  me this. I've heard it from whites, blacks and even from Indians.
  Well, folks, I hate to disappoint you, but I like white people
  just fine. To tell the truth, I rather admire them and their
  fascinating history.

  Oh, I know what you're thinking. "Yeagley! How can you say that?
  How can you admire a people who slaughtered your ancestors, gave
  smallpox to those left alive, herded them onto reservations,
  made them all drunks, and - as the final indignity - sold their
  turquoise mines to the Japanese?"

  Well, the way I figure it, anyone who could whip our Indian behinds
  like the white man did deserves our highest respect. And anyone
  who can whip a Comanche (my tribe) deserves the Medal of Honor.

  I admire a man who can beat me. I dare say, deep inside all Indians
  * at least those who are still warriors at heart - there is a
  special admiration for the white man.

  When the Comanches first encountered the white man, his behavior didn't
  shock them. They saw that he took what he wanted by force.
  And they understood. Because the Comanches did the same to their weaker
  neighbors.

  If my ancestors had been strong enough, they would have taken
  the white man's land, instead of the other way around. And they
  wouldn't have felt guilty about it afterwards. You wouldn't have
  seen any defeated white people getting affirmative action from
  Comanches.

  When one general surrenders to another, they salute each other.
  It doesn't mean that there's no bitterness between them. It just
  means that a warrior respects his foe.

  White people understand this, because they too come from a warrior
  culture. The white man has great respect for the Indian. I'm
  not saying he always treats us the way we want to be treated.
  But he respects us for putting up a good fight.

  Have you ever noticed how cowboy-and-Indian movies always focus on the
  same tribes? It's either the Sioux, the Apaches or the Comanches. White
  people remember those tribes, because they fought hard and were the last
  to surrender.

  Why does the U.S. military have helicopters named "Apache" and
  "Comanche" - but none that are named "Arikara" or "Ojibwa?" They
  name their weapons systems after the fiercest tribes, because
  they want some of that fierceness to rub off.

  Back in the 1930s, the warrior spirit was still strong in Indians
  and white men alike. At that time, the Oceti Sakowin Hunkpapa
  Sioux elders of Standing Rock honored the University of North
  Dakota by giving them permission to use the name "Fighting Sioux"
  for their sports teams.

  At that time, many old people, both whites and Indians, still
  remembered the last wars. Wounded Knee was more recent for them
  than World War II is for us. Yet they saluted each other, warrior
  to warrior. Because one fighting people understands another.

  Today, the leftists tell us that the "Fighting Sioux" name is
  an insult to Indians, and we must demand that the university
  change it. I guess that goes for the Apache and Comanche helicopters too.
  I've written other columns on this issue. Everyone knows where
  I stand. I'm with the Sioux elders, who believe that a warrior
  can respect and honor his foe.

  Some people get it. Some don't.

  Keith Rushing doesn't. He's a black man from Hampton, VA, who
  wrote to me February 22, in response to my February 13 column,
  "Don't Walk the Black Man's Path." Mr. Rushing was "shocked"
  by my attitude.

  "I'm sure you realize that the reference to the 'Fighting Sioux'
  is akin to calling Native Americans wild Indians," he lectured
  me. "I'm a black man but I've never quite understood why white-owned
  athletic teams have this fantasy about fierce Indian warriors
  when they unfortunately decimated so many Indian people. There's
  some sick irony involved there."

  In Mr. Rushing's view, the "fierce Indian warrior" is nothing
  but a white "fantasy." We were not warriors, he implies, but
  poor, defenseless victims who were "decimated" without putting
  up a fight. Mr. Rushing seems to feel that there is more honor
  in being pathetic. Perhaps he feels we should think of ourselves
  as alcoholic, diabetic, suicidal and unemployed.

  No thank you.

  The white man may have taken my land. But he took it like a warrior,
  fair and square. Yes, he treated my people harshly. But he never
  denied their bravery, never besmirched their memory as warriors.

  But you did, Mr. Rushing. You did.


  Dr. David A. Yeagley teaches humanities and psychology at Oklahoma
  State University, Oklahoma City. His opinions are independent.
  He holds degrees from Yale, Emory, Oberlin, University of Arizona
  and University of Hartford. He is a member of the Comanche Tribe,
  Lawton, OK. For more information on Dr. Yeagley's initiative
  to teach patriotism in the schools, click here. E-mail him at
  [log in to unmask]

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