Richard,

A brief, excellent, open-minded (unbiased) summary of reality.

Best wishes for the new year.

Fred

On Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 02:25  AM, Richard Barker wrote:

> Brice wrote:
>
> "I don't recall any American's suicide bombing civilians in Iraq,
> Fred."
>
> But you might recall murdering over 10,000 Iraqis in the invasion.
>
> --
>
> Obviously we are not getting anywhere with these circular arguments.
> My
> main issue with most of the right wing/pro war/kill all our enemies,
> is just
> that you need a bit of perspective.  In my arguments it might seems as
> though I think America is to blame for everything and capitalism is
> evil
> etc, but I am just trying to point out that there 2 sides to every
> story.  I
> have the impression that you want to view the world in simple black and
> white terms, Israel is right, Terrorism is always wrong, Socialism is
> evil,
> America is great, etc.
>
> Unfortunately everything is very grey.  It's important to remember we
> are
> all human beings and the vast majority of people just want to live
> their
> life without problems.  What you have to question is what makes someone
> change from wanting to bring up his family in peace to wanting to
> sacrifice
> his life to harm others.
>
> Look at parallels in history.  During the second world war were the
> French
> resistance wrong as effectively there were terrorists, when they
> attacked
> the Germans.  From the German perspective they were.  Are the Iraqis
> that
> are blowing up American/British soldiers in Iraq, freedom fighters or
> terrorists.  It's all depends on which side of the fence you're on,
> but you
> can't just say one is categorical right and the other is wrong.
>
> Look at the Native Americans, in comes this mob of foreigners taking
> your
> land.  The Natives attack the invaders in the only way they know how,
> they
> are then represented in the press as evil nasty savages and must be
> wiped
> out.  Eventually the superior numbers, fire power and organisation
> virtually
> eliminate them from the Earth.  Think about the Palestinians, suddenly
> you
> are told to give up your land to someone else, you are then humiliated
> during a battle to repel these invaders and have to accept that they
> are now
> you masters and will do what they wish with you.  Do you accept this
> and
> just get on with it or do you become so disillusioned and frustrated
> that
> you decide to attack them with the only means you are capable of.
> Israel
> has murdered a lot more Palestine's than the other way around.
>
> The overall point is that I am not saying terrorism is the answer or
> that
> Israel is completely wrong.  I am just saying that you have to put
> yourself
> in both camps before passing judgement.
>
> At the beginning of the conflict in Iraq the US/UK governments were
> moaning
> about an Iraqi television channel showing captured US soldiers,
> claiming it
> breaks the Geneva convention.  Yet we now see Saddam humiliated on TV
> and
> his two sons lying dead in a mortuary.  We have people illegally
> kidnapped
> from all over the world to be held in a prison camp in Cuba, without
> trial,
> charge or representation.  I personally see that as very hypocritical
> of a
> country that pushes the idea of freedom and justice for all.
>
> Again, please don't interpret this that I think America is evil, I am
> just
> saying that America and in fact nearly every government in the world
> does
> some pretty nasty things, so don't be so quick to point the finger at
> others.
>
> Sorry, a bit of a rant for Christmas Eve.
>
>
>
>
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