Amazingly (after years of prodding HP to improve this area),
Stan still has the energy to note:


> .....   the ITRC (IT Resource Center) has recently gone from
> bad to worse.
>  .........
>    - why do users accept this?
>
>    - why does HP think it's acceptable?
>
>    - isn't there an HP manager *anywhere* who can look
>      at the HP ITRC and say:  wow, this *sucks*!?

[....SNIP....  most of specific list of 12 items (minus one (# 4)
that follow-on noted has been recently fixed):

>    7) years worth of complete refusal on HP's part to listen
>       to users' complaints about the system.

Sometimes I wonder if there is some intrinsic "blockage" in
large companies that almost by definition makes it (apparently)
almost impossible for them to take what would seem to be fairly
easy, relatively low-cost, and dead obvious action to resolve
things like the very specific, detailed list that Stan mentioned;
when same is brought to that company's attention;  not just
once but many times over a period of years...   It can't be a
deliberate effort to irritate large numbers of their customers;
and it would seem to be so very much in the company's best
interest to try hard to fix these types of problems....  but they
don't get fixed....  why is beyond me...

SIDEBAR:  Note (as I expect many have) HP is not alone in the
Fortune 100 in this respect:  I'm in the market for a late-model
Ford E-350 Van to replace my faithful but tiring old Chevy.
Went to Ford web site the other night...  talk about suck:  While
some parts of it worked semi-acceptably, it has many problems
similar to the ones Stan just detailed.  After struggling to get the
info I most needed for about 15 minutes I finally concluded I
couldn't get there;  went to edmunds.com,  cars.com, etc.;  got
all the info I was looking for and then some in short order.


But then as Jeff noted, some of the biggest other players have
really got their web site act together.  He mentioned CISCO as
one of the obvious leading high-end contenders;  DELL is
another....   Stan has already listed specifics;  all I can add is
something I've said before:  HP support managers need to:

(1)   Take a *detailed* walk through  cisco.com  and  dell.com.
(2)   Compare to corresponding HP web pages.
(3)   Try and objectively ask yourself:  Which is better.
(4)   Try to close the gap at least a *little* bit.


>    8) lack of email bug submission mechanism, despite being
> requested for nearly a *decade*.
>
>       Email bug submission means you don't have to have HP
> ITRC up and limping along when the user wants to submit ...

Of the things Stan listed, last above would be one of the most
useful;  especially if my system just crashed and I am frantically
busy trying to reboot;  those are the times when seconds count
(fortunately for us, of course, our 959-400 very rarely crashes...
in fact except for some transient problems seating new CPU
boards months ago, don't recall last time other crash happened).

And in fact, HP RC engineers are *already* reachable by email;
once you get them on the phone:  Almost as a matter of routine
now, the first time I talk to someone beyond the gate-keeper at
the RC I ask them to confirm their <first>_<last>@hp.com  in
case I need it.  All we would need is one or a few email
addresses AHEAD OF TIME for the RC;  that sites on support
could use to initiate a call....  surely for the initial transmission
it would be enough for the HP system to confirm originating
customer email address matches the contact email for the
system handle.....   and after asking on almost every call for a
couple years, I believe the HP RC *finally* (in the last few
months) added / made accessible a field in their database /
on their gate-keepers / CE's screens that shows the customer
email address when that info has been provided.  Surely putting
together what would seem to be the last few small missing
pieces to make routine email bug initiation and submission
possible *can't* be that big a project ????....


>    9) Shamefully inadequate bug text submission
>
>       Bug text is limited to 60 lines of 80 characters ...

... making it difficult when you have, say, 800+ lines of pertinent
data available on your monitor....  another problem that would
(I sure hope) be solved by email bug reports...


>       Users have also asked that the entire Technical
> Knowledge Database be put on such a web server.  The
> requestors acknowledge that this would let competitors see
> HP's bug reports, but accurately point out that it would benefit
> HP more than them (IBM, Sun) ::

Remember our faithful IPROF attendee of many years from
IBM ??.....  IBM and Sun (or consultants they hire for that
purpose) are *surely* already HP customers;  and have full
access to anything that other customers on support can get at;
i.e.:  They're not hiding anything from anybody that seriously
wants to know...


>    12) database update
>
>       Have you ever *tried* to get contact information updated?

We've had a 959 for just under five years now.  For years the
RC insisted on saying we have a 957.  For that same nearly five
years our support contract (with HP, not third party) on the
first line said:  Product # A3204A - HP 3000 959/KSx00...  but
never the support contract and RC databases shall meet,
apparently (it may or may not finally have gotten changed in
the last couple months;  again after I kept mentioning it over a
period of several years...


> What can we do?
>
>    1) bill HP for the time we spend using HP ITRC ....

Someone who's not in the Federal Civil Service should try it
(on an unrelated matter I tried to do a deal with a reputable
third-party vendor where we the Government would actually
GET a few dollars from a vendor....  turned out to be totally
impossible:  the Government bureaucracy was incapable of
dealing with RECEIVING money;  it could only pay out;  I had
to give up and buy enough stuff from the vendor so that we
ended up owing them $5 or whatever it was;  that worked....).


> ........ Comments like "Y's support site is better because..."
> are useful, but better directed to HP management.

Well, as per above maybe one or more of the HP engineers
who follow 3000-L can point the right HP manager(s) in the
support organization at CISCO and DELL with a few trial
scenarios...  then have them personally try the same thing with
the HP ITRC....  see if they notice a difference....

Ken Sletten