Your understanding of current events is once again at odds with reality.
Nevertheless, it is imperative that a true ceasefire become in effect in the
region and that the Russians and the Georgians pull back to their positions
before the conflict.
These events are linked to the Kosovo events of some years back and
especially to the winter 2008 Kosovo agreement. However, these events must
not be allowed to divert us from the war on Jihadi terrorists, and it has
the potential to do just that.
In the long run, I believe that South Ossetia and Abkhazia will be able to
peaceably go their own way from Georgia but it's going to require some
fortitude from politicians in the EU, the US and Russia as well. There are
no such politicians in the EU, and depending on the outcome of the elections
in the US, there may not be here either. Russia knows what it wants and it
will be steadfast.
This is probably going to get worse before it goes real bad.
Denys
-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Heasman, David
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 1:58 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Reaction to Georgia invasion
None of what you say is a secret, to me or anyone else. However,
although these countries have joined NATO noone seriously believes that
the West will go to nuclear war to protect Ukraine, half of which
identifies with Russia anyway, from Russia. Even McCain in his fewer and
fewer lucid moments, wouldn't. Georgia is a long way from the North
Atlantic. A very small country with a small talent pool for politicians
decides to shell civilians in disputed territory while a truce is
operative. And the territory is disputed with Russia. It's hard to think
of anything more stupid or dangerous, and I have no desire for my
children to be turned into smouldering ashes because of it. Nor, to
paraphrase a better tactician than either of us, do I think this fight
worth the blood of one English squaddy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Denys Beauchemin [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 14 August 2008 01:59
To: Heasman, David; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: [HP3000-L] OT: Reaction to Georgia invasion
Really?
Despite the ceasefire, Russia is still actively attacking in Georgia.
Perhaps the French did not have as much influence as they (and you)
think. The Germans are doing pretty much nothing, they really have no
influence and I think it will take a long time before they gain any.
You should remember that when the Soviet Union crumbled in the early
1990s, a lot of the SSRs, newly freed from Russia, approached the West
and asked to join NATO.
In 1990, East Germany joined NATO as part of the German reunification.
In 1999, Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary joined NATO.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania
joined NATO in 2004.
Earlier this year, Croatia and Albania were invited to join.
And currently, Ukraine and Georgia are vying to membership and have been
told they would eventually be allowed to join.
These countries have joined NATO to protect them from Russia. They know
Russia very well and they know what they are capable of doing.
In case you forget, NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was
formed after WWII ostensibly to keep the Russians out of, the Germans
down and the Americans in, Europe.
At this time, Russia has shown why these ex-Soviet Socialist Republics
should be afraid.
Denys
-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Heasman, David
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Reaction to Georgia invasion
Oh good, that's what's happening. Russia and Georgia have stopped
killing each other and the French and that's if you count Chechnya, and
Germans are looking to produce a lasting truce. The Georgians stupidly
thought that US assurances of support - "we are all Georgians now" eh?
In an armchair 6 000 miles away - meant that they could shell civilians
while a truce was operating. That won't happen again, soon. In the
meantime noone wins but Russia, which is bad news for the Baltics.
Still, Russia has only invaded 3 countries in the past 20 years, and
that's if you include Chechnya, which is low for a nuclear superpower,
especially compared with one other.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brice Yokem [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 13 August 2008 19:40
To: HP3000 List; Heasman, David
Subject: Re: OT: Reaction to Georgia invasion
I agree we should treat this as a European territorial dispute and let
Europe settle the matter.
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