Steve and Wirt make good points about an "Eye for an eye" and about Moses
getting some Laws which still make sense today. But I have a couple of
thoughts:

1)   I think the language translated as "Thou shalt not kill" is more
accurately translated "thou shalt not murder".  Which still makes about
trying to avoid innocent deaths.

2)   I was personally trying to reconcile "Turn the other cheek" with my
understanding that G-d is concerned about justice. This Sunday's message
helped me a lot. Here's a couple of points:

   Romans 13:1-4 talks about authorities; Vs 4 states that our rulers do not
"bear the sword in vain; for he is G-d's minister, an avenger to execute
wrath on him who practices evil".

   And First Peter 2:13-14 "Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance
of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors,
as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the
praise of those who do good".

   The gist of the message was, as in individual, we are to turn the other
cheek, but a government is there to protect the people. The government seems
to be given a charter to "bear the sword" and to "punish evildoers".

   Apologies for some potential out of context quotations. I invite others
to read the context and comment if I'm missing something.


 Rich Trapp <mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Consulting for Agilent Technologies, Loveland, Colorado.

Managed Business Solutions <http://www.mbsnav.com/>
200 South College Avenue
Fort Collins, Colorado 80524-2811
970.679.2221 (voice)
970.669.3071 (fax)



-----Original Message-----
From: Wirt Atmar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 10:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Violence begets violence.


Steve writes:

> That's because they conveniently overlook the fact that "an eye for an
>  eye" was the Old Testament, pre-Christ "policy" (along with numerous
>  other items, like animal and human sacrifice). The birth, life, and
>  death of Jesus marked a re-negotiation of the contract; the "New Deal"
>  replaced "eye for an eye" with "turn the other cheek".

While that is the essence of the testament of Jesus, it's certainly not
original with Jesus either. Moses received the Ten Commandments while
leading
his people out of Egypt to form a new nation. In that, Exodus 20 reads:

"And God spake all these words, saying,
<snip>

"13": Thou shalt not kill.

There are no caveats or exemptions or dispensations or legal loopholes in
this last statement. You either abide by it, or you don't.

Wirt Atmar

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