Craig M. Lalley ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
: Jerry Leslie wrote:
:
: "Actually, I prefer the Pledge without "Under God", since that's the way
: I learned it, plus I believe in a strict separation of church and state.
: The Taliban showed what can happen without such a separation.
:
: There should also be separation of corporation and state."
:
: Now one could argue maybe incorrectly though, that the founding fathers
: believed in a "separation of church and state."  As far as I am
: concerned that argument is already lost, especially when one Senator
: Kennedy could accuse someone of not being fit for office because of his
: religious views.

There are more things to worry about than Senator Kennedy's views...

One of Bush's appointees has proposed incarceration of Arab Americans
in concentration camps, as was done to Japanese Americans after the U.S.
declared war on Japan.

The Bush administration wanting to change the Posse Comitatus Act to
allow the military to be used as enforcers of civilian law:

   http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/2002/05/30/3721640.htm
   Ledger-Enquirer | 07/24/2002 |
   Analysts urge caution with review of Posse Comitatus

The government's tossing a U.S. citizen in a military brig without an
indictment, without access to his attorney, and telling the media he
might never be tried:

   http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0225/ridgeway2.php
   The Village Voice: Nation: Mondo Washington:
   Bush Distances Himself From Attorney General by James Ridgeway

  "...The government attorneys apparently could not get an indictment
   out of a New York grand jury and, rather than let him go, handed
   Padilla off to the military. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld,
   speaking from Quatar, says he might never be tried..."

   http://www.msnbc.com/news/792462.asp
   And Justice for All

  "Jose Padilla still sits in a cell at the Charleston Naval Station
   though no charges have been filed against him..."

       "...Newman, who has been barred from seeing her client, is trying
   to challenge his detention in federal court. The outcome could have
   broad consequences. So far, only two U.S. citizens--Padilla and
   Hamdi--have been deemed enemy combatants. But last week administration
   officials confirmed they were talking about creating a panel to review
   whether others should join the list. That even gives some Bush
   officials the creeps. "It's one thing if there were three guys--but if
   there are going to be hundreds of Padillas, I'd be concerned," said
   one. Which is why it may take the Supreme Court to ultimately answer
   that nagging question: can they do that?"

A panel to review whether other U.S. citizens should be denied their
rights under the Constitution is too close to a Star Chamber.

Think the recent corporate reform law is going to be enforced ?:

   http://www.thedailyenron.com/documents/20020807091644-16181.asp
   Administration Undermining New Corp. Reforms
   GOP Leaders Hobbled by Corp. Taint

   "...The president said all the right things at the signing ceremony,"
   said Sen. Patrick D. Leahy (D-VT) chairman of the Senate Judiciary
   Committee. "But now given the tough law, they're basically saying,
   'We're not going to use it.'"

   [snip]

   Even some Republicans have been alarmed by the administration's brazen
   attempts to gut measures passed by Congress after long and detailed
   debate. The White House says it is simply tying to clarify
   "congressional intent."

   "Any dummy that reads the bill knows what we meant. We couldn't have
   written it any clearer," said Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-IA).

   [snip]

   In another administration "clarification," prosecutors are being
   discouraged from charging individuals with securities fraud. The law
   created a new felony category for securities fraud with prison terms
   of up to 25 years.

     But Sen. Leahy says he has proof that the Justice Department is
   downplaying the new felony charge to its prosecutors - in essence
   sending the message not to charge individuals under it.

   Reform advocates are outraged by what they see as a legislative coup
   by the executive branch. The administration's "guidance letters"
   appear to be "an effort to undermine the intent of Congress to protect
   investors," said Frank Torres, a lobbyist for Consumers Union.

   Leahy said: "I can give the benefit of the doubt on one mistake. But
   then you have a second one and a third one. Well, three strikes and I
   don't believe it's a mistake. I think they don't believe in
   enforcement."

:
: But I do think there is absolutely no question that the founding fathers
: believed in a separation of school and state.  Or do you really think
: the founding Fathers would send their children to King George to get
: educated?
:
No, they'd send them to private schools, just like today's politicians do.

More on separation of corporation and state:

   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22352-2002Jul17.html
  'Corporate Socialism' (washingtonpost.com)

   [snip]

   "Corporate socialism" -- the privatization of profit and the
   socialization of risks and misconduct -- is displacing capitalist
   canons. This condition prevents an adaptable capitalism, served by
   equal justice under law, from delivering higher standards of living
   and enlarging its absorptive capacity for broader community and
   environmental values. Civic and political movements must call for a
   decent separation of corporation and state.

   In 1938, in the midst of the Great Depression, Congress created the
   Temporary National Economic Committee to hold hearings around the
   country, recommend ways to deal with the concentration of economic
   power and promote a more just economy. World War II stopped this
   corporate reform momentum. We should not have to wait for a further
   deterioration from today's gross inequalities of wealth and income to
   launch a similar commission on the rampant corporatization of our
   country. At stake is whether civic values of our democratic society
   will prevail over invasive commercial values."

--Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)
  Note: [log in to unmask] is invalid for email

  "GAP Kids: Clothes Made By Kids, For Kids!"

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *