>Geeesh! I did not think I needed to wear my flame suit, so I was caught
>off guard. Perhaps I should have been more complete in my original
>message because everyone seems to have missed the point. Thus, I
>apologize for repeating the entire text of Wirt's reply, but feel it
>necessary in this case so that I can comment in context on several of
>the issues raised.
>
>Wirt Atmar writes:
>
>>Frank Fish writes:
>>
>>> Duane Percox wrote:
>>>
>>> > John Burke wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  > >Be still my beating heart. Check out page 33 of the October 20
>>>issue of
>>>  > >PCWeek. A full page ad for the HP3000!!! In PCWeek!!! Did I just
>>>use up
>>>  > >my quota of exclamation marks? Well, it was worth it.
>>>  > >
>>>  > >Of course, the money would have been better spent ensuring the HP3000
>>>  > >could be used as the database server for SAP or Baan - just one
>>>  > >frustrated sys admin's opinion.
>>>  >
>>>  > Duane Percox wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  > I get it....we spend the last n years beating up HP about not telling
>>>  > the world how great the HP3000 is.
>
>And I proudly own up to being one of those doing the "beating up". In
>my case, publicly in my writings, first with HP Professional, and now
>for the last two years with The 3000 News/Wire.
>
>>>  > Then when they do, we complain that they are wasting their money and
>>>  > it should be spent on something else.
>
>My point is the funds should be targeted more wisely. Advertising the
>HP3000 in ComputerWorld (the same ad is in the 10/20 issue by the way)
>makes perfect sense. Advertising in the Wall Street Journal would make
>even more sense because it is the publication that CEOs, CFOs and CIOs
>are going to read. PCWeek is a good publication, but advertising the
>HP3000 there, considering the readership, is a waste of money.
>
>In a later post, Alfredo Rego mentioned, tongue probably somewhat in
>cheek, that Golf Digest should be added. Actually, in my opinion it
>would probably be a better advertising vehicle for the HP3000 than
>PCWeek.
>
>>>  >
>>>  > I must respectfully disagree with John. I don't think the money
>>>  > is better spent on wooing such software vendors. It has been tried
>>>  > and it has failed....numerious times. HP cannot force this class of
>>>  > vendor to use a specific platform. And if they do, it might only be
>>>  > for a short period of time.
>
>Applications are where it is at. And for manufacturing companies, on
>whose back the HP3000 achieved its initial acceptance and growth, ERP
>is the holy graile du jour. No self-respecting CEO or CFO can get
>together with his buddies unless he can talk about his ERP project.
>And, like it or not, SAP and Baan have won the war for mind share in
>ERP.
>
>>>  > Tell me, what is a bigger waste:
>>>  >
>>>  > 1. An ad for the hp3k in pcweek
>>>  >
>>>  > or
>>>  >
>>>  > 2. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars spent getting SAP
>>>  >    to run on the HP3000 only to have SAP decide this was not a
>>>  >    strategic platform. SAP subsequently replaced the running HP3000
>>>  >    installation with HP9000 systems, not certifying the port for
>>>  >    our beloved HP3000.
>>>  >
>>>  > or the other war stores of bought or financed software ventures on
>>>  > the HP3000 that went awry.
>>>  >
>>>  > I highly encourage HP to spend money on things they can control.
>
>I have to, respectfully because he has been such a great supporter of
>the HP3000, disagree with Duane here. Visibility is important, but, I
>repeat, an ad in PCWeek for the HP3000 is a waste of money. Because
>applications are the only thing that will be selling HP3000s in the
>future.
>
>SAP R/3 follows the three tier client/server model:
>
>   desktop clients <---> application servers <---> database server
>
>Windows NT makes an excellent application server. So does the HP9000.
>The database server, however, performs a completely different mission;
>one that cries out for a platform with the robustness, the scalability
>and reliability of the HP3000. It would be an expensive project to port
>the R/3 application modules to the HP3000. However, the module that
>allows the application servers to interact with the database server
>(for example Oracle on the HP9000) is relatively small - certainly not
>rocket science and I would think easily portable to the HP3000 for well
>under the million dollars Duane suggests. [Of course, I would dearly
>love to see IMAGE/SQL, or even Allbase supported but I am willing to
>settle for the possible in an effort to leverage our considerable
>investment in MPE. And Oracle appears to run reasonably well, if not
>spectacularly, on the HP3000.]
>
>I have no inside knowledge, but I would bet IBM footed the bill and is
>continuing to foot the bill to get R/3 on the AS/400. And is marketing
>the package as part of the SAP Fast Start or Ready-to-Run program very
>agressively. Now, before anyone jumps all over me, I know the installed
>base for the AS/400 is as much as 10 times the size of the HP3000.
>However, a large percentage of those are small systems in small
>companies that are not candidates for ERP. But those who are? Well, IBM
>obviously does not want those accounts to migrate to a different,
>perhaps non-IBM platform. I think HP in the past assumed it could
>convince most customers switching to Unix to move to HP-UX. Net result:
>HP does not lose a customer. Times change. Windows NT is hot and Unix
>is not. And, as long as someone is going to Windows NT, that opens up a
>whole array of hardware vendors to choose from. The advantages of
>staying with HP are few if any.
>
>>>
>>>  I agree with Duane.  In order to preserve the perceived viability of the
>>>  HP-3000 platform, HP needs to promote the HP-3000 in more general
>>>  purpose, general circulation periodicals, such as those that our CEOs,
>>>  business managers and board members are likely to read.  If they were
>>>  exposed to more pro-HP-3000 information from non-technical sources, they
>>>  might not be so likely to question the wisdom of choosing a
>>>  tried-and-true, reliable, OLTP-workhorse like the HP-3000.
>>>
>>
>>I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with Duane and Frank. These
>>advertisements
>>do more good than be counted on a dozen fingers and toes.
>>
>
>Let me say this another way. To borrow, and alter slightly, a phrase
>from real estate, the three most important things in IS today are
>applications, applications, applications. With all the good news that
>has come out lately for the HP3000, there remains a giant hole: a
>migration path for manufacturers and distributors to world class ERP
>solutions that preserve our considerable investment in HP and the
>HP3000.
>
>I challenged HP through a question at the HPWorld Management Roundtable
>to revisit the issue of ERP software and the HP3000 with the principle
>ERP vendors. Apparently my question was one of those deemed "beating a
>dead horse" and has so far been ignored. This is why I included "just
>one frustrated sys admin's opinion" at the end of my original post.
>
>John Burke
>Pacific Coast Building Products
>e-mail: [log in to unmask]